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Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:03 pmI think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 1:25 pmI do not buy that the narrative that the perception of Ball’s lack of seriousness and maturity are unfair.weimy froob wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 7:14 am ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
lex
@maplewedgie
loved the perspective @MirinFader gave on Lamelo: “he’s most happy, most himself, most serious when he’s actually playing and playing hard”
“it’s just been unfair because he never had a chance to show his true colors because others were always speaking for him”
I do buy that he’s young and most of the story of his career has yet to be written. So there’s plenty of time for him to change the narrative, if he wants to. But the existing narrative right now is earned.
For sure. I don’t think anyone will be nominating LaVar for father of the year, though he did raise multiple children to reach the NBA, so that’s not nothing. Publicly, the guy is a world class jerk. He’s probably the same way at home behind closed doors, but I don’t know that. Maybe he’s very nurturing and supportive. That would surprise me, but it’s not impossible.
Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:19 pmAgreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:03 pmI think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 1:25 pm
I do not buy that the narrative that the perception of Ball’s lack of seriousness and maturity are unfair.
I do buy that he’s young and most of the story of his career has yet to be written. So there’s plenty of time for him to change the narrative, if he wants to. But the existing narrative right now is earned.
But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.
When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.
So not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:36 pmLike Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:19 pmAgreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:03 pm
I think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.
But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.
When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.
But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.
I said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:38 pmSo not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:36 pmLike Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:19 pm
Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.
But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.
When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.
But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.
Is that your take?
Or,mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:42 pmI said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:38 pmSo not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:36 pm
Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.
But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.
Is that your take?
I think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:59 pmOr,mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:42 pmI said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:38 pm
So not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?
Is that your take?
He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.
I’ll admit I had biases against the Ball’s due to LaVar, but I managed to flip my view of Lonzo. Injuries aside, he played a more mature game and wasn’t a knucklehead off of the court.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:28 pmFor sure. I don’t think anyone will be nominating LaVar for father of the year, though he did raise multiple children to reach the NBA, so that’s not nothing. Publicly, the guy is a world class jerk. He’s probably the same way at home behind closed doors, but I don’t know that. Maybe he’s very nurturing and supportive. That would surprise me, but it’s not impossible.
At some point though, your past is your past and you become responsible for the person you chose to become, regardless of your past.
Maybe LaMelo will get there and maybe not.
And I think we need to be clear what we’re talking about here. I’m not saying there’s anything really wrong with the Balls. To my knowledge, there’s nothing criminal or even strongly objectionable about them. They just rub me the wrong way and I question if they value flash and self-promotion over the details, discipline, and less glamorous parts of the game that matter to winning and creating a winning culture.
I don’t think they’re inherently bad people or anything. LaMelo should slow down, though.
I think both of you have valid points.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 3:43 pmI think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:59 pmOr,
He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.
He was the #3 pick in the draft, the ROY, the point guard, and the highest paid player on his team.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 3:43 pmI think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:59 pmOr,
He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.
Tom Brady said Randy Moss was the smartest WR he ever played with. And maybe he said football player.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:36 pmLike Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:19 pmAgreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:03 pm
I think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.
But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.
When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.
But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.
Yep! I am so excited to see Ant working off the ball and a legit Pg to break down the D
I am too. And I’m one who felt we still had a good chance if we stood pat. We were the only team to beat both the Spurs and Thunder twice last season. And we beat a healthy Spurs twice in the playoffs while being dinged up.
I remember, Witljon. You were. I agree we could have taken them with a lil more health.
Well, our front office is hoping to improve our title chances.Catalyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2026 10:14 amI remember, Witljon. You were. I agree we could have taken them with a lil more health.
I think I give you the win on this one.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 6:27 pmHe was the #3 pick in the draft, the ROY, the point guard, and the highest paid player on his team.mlhouse wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 3:43 pmI think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2026 2:59 pm
Or,
He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.
A mature player would recognize the leadership role incumbent upon him in light of those facts and play accordingly.
There have been many players on shitty teams who managed to still play disciplined ball and give effort on both ends of the court. KG, for example.
I think it was Whitlock on ESPN and he thinks Ball and Ant is going to be a disaster off the court. He said strip clubs are going to get WRECKED by these two.
It’s sounding like the Wolves will be playing him there in the summer league.
The logistical progression of this trade certainly is "Mo Gueye."Beef Supreme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2026 10:04 am
It will be interesting to see if this posts today or if they’re still tinkering.
