Wolves acquire Lamelo Ball and Josh Green for Naz

[weimy froob]

I never had a firm opinion one way or another on LaMelo outside of I liked what I saw the few times that he played against the Wolves. excited to see what he can do with them this season.

[Beef Supreme]

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lex
@maplewedgie
loved the perspective @MirinFader gave on Lamelo: “he’s most happy, most himself, most serious when he’s actually playing and playing hard”

“it’s just been unfair because he never had a chance to show his true colors because others were always speaking for him”

I do not buy that the narrative that the perception of Ball’s lack of seriousness and maturity are unfair.


I do buy that he’s young and most of the story of his career has yet to be written. So there’s plenty of time for him to change the narrative, if he wants to. But the existing narrative right now is earned.

I think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.

Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.

But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.

When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.

[Catalyst]

You have to feel for him the way he grew up in that circus his father created. Nothing was private for him ever.

[Beef Supreme]

You have to feel for him the way he grew up in that circus his father created. Nothing was private for him ever.

For sure. I don’t think anyone will be nominating LaVar for father of the year, though he did raise multiple children to reach the NBA, so that’s not nothing. Publicly, the guy is a world class jerk. He’s probably the same way at home behind closed doors, but I don’t know that. Maybe he’s very nurturing and supportive. That would surprise me, but it’s not impossible.

At some point though, your past is your past and you become responsible for the person you chose to become, regardless of your past.

Maybe LaMelo will get there and maybe not.


And I think we need to be clear what we’re talking about here. I’m not saying there’s anything really wrong with the Balls. To my knowledge, there’s nothing criminal or even strongly objectionable about them. They just rub me the wrong way and I question if they value flash and self-promotion over the details, discipline, and less glamorous parts of the game that matter to winning and creating a winning culture.

I don’t think they’re inherently bad people or anything. LaMelo should slow down, though.

[mlhouse]

I do not buy that the narrative that the perception of Ball’s lack of seriousness and maturity are unfair.


I do buy that he’s young and most of the story of his career has yet to be written. So there’s plenty of time for him to change the narrative, if he wants to. But the existing narrative right now is earned.

I think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.

Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.

But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.

When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.

Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.

But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.

[Beef Supreme]

I think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.

Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.

But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.

When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.

Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.

But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.

So not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?


Is that your take?

[mlhouse]

Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.

But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.

When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.

Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.

But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.

So not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?


Is that your take?

I said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.

[Beef Supreme]

Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.

But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.

So not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?


Is that your take?

I said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.

Or,

He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.

[mlhouse]

So not playing defense is Ball’s genius evaluation?


Is that your take?

I said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.

Or,

He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.

I think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.

[SHAFA]

You have to feel for him the way he grew up in that circus his father created. Nothing was private for him ever.

For sure. I don’t think anyone will be nominating LaVar for father of the year, though he did raise multiple children to reach the NBA, so that’s not nothing. Publicly, the guy is a world class jerk. He’s probably the same way at home behind closed doors, but I don’t know that. Maybe he’s very nurturing and supportive. That would surprise me, but it’s not impossible.

At some point though, your past is your past and you become responsible for the person you chose to become, regardless of your past.

Maybe LaMelo will get there and maybe not.


And I think we need to be clear what we’re talking about here. I’m not saying there’s anything really wrong with the Balls. To my knowledge, there’s nothing criminal or even strongly objectionable about them. They just rub me the wrong way and I question if they value flash and self-promotion over the details, discipline, and less glamorous parts of the game that matter to winning and creating a winning culture.

I don’t think they’re inherently bad people or anything. LaMelo should slow down, though.

I’ll admit I had biases against the Ball’s due to LaVar, but I managed to flip my view of Lonzo. Injuries aside, he played a more mature game and wasn’t a knucklehead off of the court.

LaMelo hasn’t done that for me yet. Hopefully it changes.

[Mplsfonz]

I said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.

Or,

He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.

I think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.

I think both of you have valid points.

My view is, Melo shouldn't have to have someone to push him to be better, it has to be inside. Pretty sure Ant and Finch will find out if he is serious or a fraud. Connelly is gambling with the future of this team, so I hope he knows something we don't. If it doesn't work out, what does he care? He will be fired and looking for work elsewhere. We on the other hand will watch Ant leave, Melo on IR and us longtime fans will be able to sit front row for $15 dollars again.

[Beef Supreme]

I said Randy was a genius. But he evaluates it somewhat similarly in that is energy conservation. He might be wrong on it but that is how he justifies it. He needs to play on a team that is really competing and I think he will be a solid 2 way guy.

Or,

He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.

I think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.

He was the #3 pick in the draft, the ROY, the point guard, and the highest paid player on his team.

A mature player would recognize the leadership role incumbent upon him in light of those facts and play accordingly.

There have been many players on shitty teams who managed to still play disciplined ball and give effort on both ends of the court. KG, for example.

[witljon]

I think he gets a bad rap because of his father. Perhaps he plays too flashy at times but he seems like a Randy Moss type. What people do not understand is Moss was a very hard worker. The line "I play when I want to play" was taken completely out of context.

Agreed on Moss for the most part. And yes, LaVar isn’t helping LeMelo either.

But he’s shown enough silliness on his own to earn his reputation. Which isn’t a death sentence, as I said.

When you play with flash and ignore defense and lose a lot, you’re going to get this rep. He’s only 24. The human brain doesn’t reach full maturity until somewhere in your late 20s/early30s. That’s when things like impulse control, risk assessment, long-term thinking, etc. finally develop into what we’d call an adult style of functioning. That’s why usually we call that era in a career an athletes “prime.” They’ve still got enough athleticism left in their body before Father Time claims it and they’ve reached a level of emotional maturity and mental resilience to put it to the best possible use. If we keep this core together, they should all be entering that time together in 3 years or so.

Like Moss, he evaluated the situation rationally and did accordingly. Like blocking. Randy's mind reviewed the situation and calculated, probably correctly, that on many plays him going full out blocking probably had an overall negative value. Coaches of course hate that because they want to see hustle, but the risk of injury and the utilization of energy probably added up to value that favored Randy's assessment. Why use the energy to block someone when the play is going to the opposite side, especially when the threat of Moss on that side kept the defenders more than occupied.

But fans do not have this talent, nor Randy's genius (I believe that there are many kinds of genius and Randy is when you consider how his brain can measure time and space). So they didn't understand.

Tom Brady said Randy Moss was the smartest WR he ever played with. And maybe he said football player.

[DonaldDouchebag]

I’m still totally jazzed about this trade, gang.

[aztimberwolves]

I’m still totally jazzed about this trade, gang.

Yep! I am so excited to see Ant working off the ball and a legit Pg to break down the D

[weimy froob]

[witljon]

I’m still totally jazzed about this trade, gang.

I am too. And I’m one who felt we still had a good chance if we stood pat. We were the only team to beat both the Spurs and Thunder twice last season. And we beat a healthy Spurs twice in the playoffs while being dinged up.

[Catalyst]

I’m still totally jazzed about this trade, gang.

I am too. And I’m one who felt we still had a good chance if we stood pat. We were the only team to beat both the Spurs and Thunder twice last season. And we beat a healthy Spurs twice in the playoffs while being dinged up.

I remember, Witljon. You were. I agree we could have taken them with a lil more health.

[witljon]

I’m still totally jazzed about this trade, gang.

I am too. And I’m one who felt we still had a good chance if we stood pat. We were the only team to beat both the Spurs and Thunder twice last season. And we beat a healthy Spurs twice in the playoffs while being dinged up.

I remember, Witljon. You were. I agree we could have taken them with a lil more health.

Well, our front office is hoping to improve our title chances.

[Mplsfonz]

Or,

He needs to be a solid two-way guy for his team to really compete.

I think he knew he was on shitty teams so that was how he played. Now he is on a reasonably competitive team and the expectation better be to play hard solid defense. I don't mind a bit of show boat, but you have to earn it.

He was the #3 pick in the draft, the ROY, the point guard, and the highest paid player on his team.

A mature player would recognize the leadership role incumbent upon him in light of those facts and play accordingly.

There have been many players on shitty teams who managed to still play disciplined ball and give effort on both ends of the court. KG, for example.

I think I give you the win on this one.

[weimy froob]

[weimy froob]

[Hoop Dreams]

[RubeTube]

I think it was Whitlock on ESPN and he thinks Ball and Ant is going to be a disaster off the court. He said strip clubs are going to get WRECKED by these two.

This is either going to work spectacularly or fail so badly both won’t be here after some time. I don’t think there is going to be any inbetween.

[witljon]

Can he guard PF so he could see some time at that spot with Gobert still on the floor?

Yes

Nope, how much do they weigh together. They will get tossed around and in foul trouble within minutes. Jaden too.
We need to find a beef dawg for the starting spot. That person doesn't need to score, just box/body people.

It’s sounding like the Wolves will be playing him there in the summer league.

[A$$MAN]

Today is the day trades can become official, right?

[Oriole81]

Today is the day trades can become official, right?

[HeHateMe]

Today is the day trades can become official, right?

Read something about Gueye can't get traded til Thursday?

[Beef Supreme]

Today is the day trades can become official, right?

Read something about Gueye can't get traded til Thursday?

It will be interesting to see if this posts today or if they’re still tinkering.

[Oriole81]

Today is the day trades can become official, right?

Read something about Gueye can't get traded til Thursday?

It will be interesting to see if this posts today or if they’re still tinkering.

The logistical progression of this trade certainly is "Mo Gueye."

Spoiler:

I'm on a comedic heater today