Wolves acquire Lamelo Ball and Josh Green for Naz

[weimy froob]

I'd like to have a better understanding of what happened to him last year.. was it because they drafted Kon and LaMelo was healthy? Sexton first half of the year then Coby White.. so he just can't find the court. I think they played Sion James a decent amount too.

His three point shooting is elite.. he's got decent size. Very interesting piece... main issue is just the Wolves are up against the second apron and are paying another guy 12.5 mil who is out the whole year... they both have decent bench guy salaries but you need them to produce otherwise you're better off with minimums and paying more money to a hole (PF). Obviously that's a future issue for now... I would be interested to know if Minnesota was actively trying to flip him the last couple of weeks.

did you read the article i attached? Out of Charlotte and very much in praise of what he brought to the team - last year (the time you are saying "what happened?") Sounds like he's the kind of player that just makes the team better in ways that often don't show up in the boxscore. I find it interesting that, as we talk about the kind of players that help make SAS and OKC strong teams, it often centers around a deep pool of wing talent on those clubs who fly around wreaking havoc on D and then on O reliably hitting their shots. I think Josh Green is exactly the kind of player who would excel on both those clubs - and all we've done since we picked him up is talk about how we should trade him.

Because we have a glaring hole now at the 4 with this trade.. if the Wolves had traded Jaden (obviously I am glad they didn't) instead of Naz, we'd probably look at Josh Green as a must get in the trade (and we'd probably ask for a future first!). But again, when you're up against the second apron so closely and we have 14.6 mil for Green next year, Donte making 12.5 and Ayo going up to 19 mil next year... then the coach says we have a hole at the 4, I want Jaden to stay at the 3.... that's a lot of money for guys off the bench because Ant and Melo... obviously they will share the court with both and Jaden will get minutes at the 4. But full time? I don't see it. Logically what would make more sense is if the Wolves said look we did this deal because Donte is out and a free agent at the end of the year... now we add Josh Green who is a 3 and d wing, with the hole at the 4 we will use Donte's expiring to go find someone.

Hey Charlotte, you just got Royce O'neal, here's Donte's expiring for him so you get off the money in year two. Same deal with Sam Hauser in Boston. The other option is calling up Memphis like you (Yum) have mentioned... here's Donte for a younger 4 or two of 'em... hey we'll take DLo off your books if you send us GG Jackson... something like that.

it's more important to make the right move then a hasty one. the DD situation is why they might take their time doing anything. get by with patchwork players. if it ain't working, then they might feel like doing something in-season. if they're having some success they'll monitor the recovery of DD and that will factor into what they want to do. my take from the cheap seats.

[Catalyst]

I hope they do take a bit of time to find the right fit for the four. We have little assests and no money to fill it with a proper starter right now and I would like to see how the season begins and see them play together to judge the proper need at the 4 than have them squander the little trade options on a maybe for the role. I definitely don't want them to aggregate Green and DD. Just before the season on a starter that may or maynot be just what we need. Other than rebounding is anyone really sure of the best type of 4 that should be starting with LeMelo,Ant,Jaden and Rudy? Why are you sure? I don't think Lebron is the answer, where are his rebounds? That is the one thing I am sure we need out of the 4.

[HeHateMe]

I hope they do take a bit of time to find the right fit for the four. We have little assests and no money to fill it with a proper starter right now and I would like to see how the season begins and see them play together to judge the proper need at the 4 than have them squander the little trade options on a maybe for the role. I definitely don't want them to aggregate Green and DD. Just before the season on a starter that may or maynot be just what we need. Other than rebounding is anyone really sure of the best type of 4 that should be starting with LeMelo,Ant,Jaden and Rudy? Why are you sure? I don't think Lebron is the answer, where are his rebounds? That is the one thing I am sure we need out of the 4.

Fair take to stay patient for now! Of course they will eventually sign another big before the season because they need to get to 14 guys anyways... and IMO that has to be someone who rebounds, adequate on defense and can hit corner threes. Nic Batum...?

[Catalyst]

I hope they do take a bit of time to find the right fit for the four. We have little assests and no money to fill it with a proper starter right now and I would like to see how the season begins and see them play together to judge the proper need at the 4 than have them squander the little trade options on a maybe for the role. I definitely don't want them to aggregate Green and DD. Just before the season on a starter that may or maynot be just what we need. Other than rebounding is anyone really sure of the best type of 4 that should be starting with LeMelo,Ant,Jaden and Rudy? Why are you sure? I don't think Lebron is the answer, where are his rebounds? That is the one thing I am sure we need out of the 4.

Fair take to stay patient for now! Of course they will eventually sign another big before the season because they need to get to 14 guys anyways... and IMO that has to be someone who rebounds, adequate on defense and can hit corner threes. Nic Batum...?

I am not objecting at all to a vet min. signing, just not wanting to see a larger move that may lock us into a situation with littke to no way out.

[Catalyst]

Just a lil aside, looked up the puma's from LaMelo. Well, they be bright.

[Beef Supreme]

I hope they do take a bit of time to find the right fit for the four. We have little assests and no money to fill it with a proper starter right now and I would like to see how the season begins and see them play together to judge the proper need at the 4 than have them squander the little trade options on a maybe for the role. I definitely don't want them to aggregate Green and DD. Just before the season on a starter that may or maynot be just what we need. Other than rebounding is anyone really sure of the best type of 4 that should be starting with LeMelo,Ant,Jaden and Rudy? Why are you sure? I don't think Lebron is the answer, where are his rebounds? That is the one thing I am sure we need out of the 4.

Fair take to stay patient for now! Of course they will eventually sign another big before the season because they need to get to 14 guys anyways... and IMO that has to be someone who rebounds, adequate on defense and can hit corner threes. Nic Batum...?

I am not objecting at all to a vet min. signing, just not wanting to see a larger move that may lock us into a situation with littke to no way out.

If you can get LeBron, you get LeBron. Outside of that, I agree. Aside from Rudy, whose replacement we allegedly already have in house, the core of the team is around 25 years old. There’s no rush or panic to make a move to make a run right now. Especially with our dearth of resources. It would be folly to squander what little ammo we have for a feel good move right now just to make the roster look more balanced on paper.

[Beef Supreme]

FYI, James averaged about 6 rpg last year. But he was more of a 3 again with Rui at the 4 and Ayton at the 5 least year.

At the 4, I’d expect him to be around 7-8 rpg in about 32 min/per. That’s okay. Not elite, but fine.

[somuchyummy]

I don't know. Maybe. Lebron averaged 6 last year with Ayton and Rui - both no hot shakes on the boards. the two combined for 11.3 rpg last year. So Lebron may have been pressed more into a rebounding role with LA. In a front court next to Rudy - who averaged more than that LA duo by himself (11.5) - I don't see Bron's rebounding stats necessarily increasing on our team.

[Beef Supreme]

I don't know. Maybe. Lebron averaged 6 last year with Ayton and Rui - both no hot shakes on the boards. the two combined for 11.3 rpg last year. So Lebron may have been pressed more into a rebounding role with LA. In a front court next to Rudy - who averaged more than that LA duo by himself (11.5) - I don't see Bron's rebounding stats necessarily increasing on our team.

Lakers were also a shitty defensive team. They were 24th in the league in FG% against. Wolves were 7th. So there will be more rebounds to be had.


I think LeBron at the 4 with us would rebound his position just fine.

[somuchyummy]

I don't know. Maybe. Lebron averaged 6 last year with Ayton and Rui - both no hot shakes on the boards. the two combined for 11.3 rpg last year. So Lebron may have been pressed more into a rebounding role with LA. In a front court next to Rudy - who averaged more than that LA duo by himself (11.5) - I don't see Bron's rebounding stats necessarily increasing on our team.

Lakers were also a shitty defensive team. They were 24th in the league in FG% against. Wolves were 7th. So there will be more rebounds to be had.


I think LeBron at the 4 with us would rebound his position just fine.

He'd be fine. But I wouldn't expect him to become some board demon. Around 6 is probably right. Julius averaged 6.7 (career 8.5) next to Rudy last season for the same reason. Gobert gobbles the glass. I think the bigger rebounding problem we've had is just everyone being slow to the ball. Maybe it's because they get used to Rudy getting so many. But it feels like we are always slow to long rebounds or batted around rebounds - ones that just don't come down where they are expected to. That's more of a team mindset that has to become more hungry and aware. In games last year when we were getting outglassed, it felt like we were always a step slow to react to the odd ones - and our opponents often beat us to them.

[Beef Supreme]

I don't know. Maybe. Lebron averaged 6 last year with Ayton and Rui - both no hot shakes on the boards. the two combined for 11.3 rpg last year. So Lebron may have been pressed more into a rebounding role with LA. In a front court next to Rudy - who averaged more than that LA duo by himself (11.5) - I don't see Bron's rebounding stats necessarily increasing on our team.

Lakers were also a shitty defensive team. They were 24th in the league in FG% against. Wolves were 7th. So there will be more rebounds to be had.


I think LeBron at the 4 with us would rebound his position just fine.

He'd be fine. But I wouldn't expect him to become some board demon. Around 6 is probably right. Julius averaged 6.7 (career 8.5) next to Rudy last season for the same reason. Gobert gobbles the glass. I think the bigger rebounding problem we've had is just everyone being slow to the ball. Maybe it's because they get used to Rudy getting so many. But it feels like we are always slow to long rebounds or batted around rebounds - ones that just don't come down where they are expected to. That's more of a team mindset that has to become more hungry and aware. In games last year when we were getting outglassed, it felt like we were always a step slow to react to the odd ones - and our opponents often beat us to them.

Wolves were 13th in rebounding in the league. Pretty much in the middle. Overall a +28 on the season, which is about + a third of a rebound per game.


Obviously, it’s better to be good or great at things than average, but this wasn’t a huge weakness.

Even in the playoffs we had a +15 rebounding edge against the Nuggets and Spurs. +53 vs Denver, -38 vs SA (greatly affected by a -31 in game 6 where we quit). And that’s with Rudy dropping his RPG in the post-season to 9.3 from 11.5 during the season. Obviously, Gordon’s injuries helped us against the Nuggs.

[Hoop Dreams]

[Hoop Dreams]

[Mnwild1128]

FYI, James averaged about 6 rpg last year. But he was more of a 3 again with Rui at the 4 and Ayton at the 5 least year.

At the 4, I’d expect him to be around 7-8 rpg in about 32 min/per. That’s okay. Not elite, but fine.

This is just my opinion BUT, if Lebron comes here, i would prefer to keep his minutes to 28 mpg. Keep Melo at the 28 that he did last season. Ayo can go up from where he was at last season to compensate. I would also prefer Gobert to go down to 28 mpg. My goal, keep everyone healthy. Let Beringer get 20 mpg MOST nights so by playoff time he is actually a plus player. I know Ant (2nd injury) and Donte got hurt in the playoffs, but we don't want to be dealing with that again this next seasons playoffs. And i think we can still win 48 games even with that minutes load plan.

Melo 28 / Ayo 12 / Bones 8
Ant 35 / Ayo 13
Jaden 21 / TSJ 17 / Clark 10
Lebron 28 / Jaden 12 / Lyles 8
Gobert 28 / Beringer 20

Something like this. Lyles, Bones or Clark will be the three guys some nights where one guy sits. I would play 10 players.

[aztimberwolves]

FYI, James averaged about 6 rpg last year. But he was more of a 3 again with Rui at the 4 and Ayton at the 5 least year.

At the 4, I’d expect him to be around 7-8 rpg in about 32 min/per. That’s okay. Not elite, but fine.

This is just my opinion BUT, if Lebron comes here, i would prefer to keep his minutes to 28 mpg. Keep Melo at the 28 that he did last season. Ayo can go up from where he was at last season to compensate. I would also prefer Gobert to go down to 28 mpg. My goal, keep everyone healthy. Let Beringer get 20 mpg MOST nights so by playoff time he is actually a plus player. I know Ant (2nd injury) and Donte got hurt in the playoffs, but we don't want to be dealing with that again this next seasons playoffs. And i think we can still win 48 games even with that minutes load plan.

Melo 28 / Ayo 12 / Bones 8
Ant 35 / Ayo 13
Jaden 21 / TSJ 17 / Clark 10
Lebron 28 / Jaden 12 / Lyles 8
Gobert 28 / Beringer 20

Something like this. Lyles, Bones or Clark will be the three guys some nights where one guy sits. I would play 10 players.

I think a lot of Balls injuries and games missed were the result of tanking. He gets hurt mid year and then when’s he’s ready to come back, they shut him down because there is no reason for him to do so.

Overall I like the minutes distribution.

[Mnwild1128]

FYI, James averaged about 6 rpg last year. But he was more of a 3 again with Rui at the 4 and Ayton at the 5 least year.

At the 4, I’d expect him to be around 7-8 rpg in about 32 min/per. That’s okay. Not elite, but fine.

This is just my opinion BUT, if Lebron comes here, i would prefer to keep his minutes to 28 mpg. Keep Melo at the 28 that he did last season. Ayo can go up from where he was at last season to compensate. I would also prefer Gobert to go down to 28 mpg. My goal, keep everyone healthy. Let Beringer get 20 mpg MOST nights so by playoff time he is actually a plus player. I know Ant (2nd injury) and Donte got hurt in the playoffs, but we don't want to be dealing with that again this next seasons playoffs. And i think we can still win 48 games even with that minutes load plan.

Melo 28 / Ayo 12 / Bones 8
Ant 35 / Ayo 13
Jaden 21 / TSJ 17 / Clark 10
Lebron 28 / Jaden 12 / Lyles 8
Gobert 28 / Beringer 20

Something like this. Lyles, Bones or Clark will be the three guys some nights where one guy sits. I would play 10 players.

I think a lot of Balls injuries and games missed were the result of tanking. He gets hurt mid year and then when’s he’s ready to come back, they shut him down because there is no reason for him to do so.

Overall I like the minutes distribution.

That might explain the games played but i still think he gets hurt too often and has shaky ankles.

[weimy froob]

[Small Hands]

Anthony Edwards on playing with LaMelo Ball:

“It’s definitely going to be ups and downs. First year together maybe a lot of downs. We’ll celebrate both of them.”

[Jimi_Thing]

Anthony Edwards on playing with LaMelo Ball:

“It’s definitely going to be ups and downs. First year together maybe a lot of downs. We’ll celebrate both of them.”

I think it’s very easy to see how LaMelo is going to be great with Jaden and Beringer. It’s more difficult seeing how Ant and LaMelo’s game will mesh.

[aztimberwolves]

Anthony Edwards on playing with LaMelo Ball:

“It’s definitely going to be ups and downs. First year together maybe a lot of downs. We’ll celebrate both of them.”

I think it’s very easy to see how LaMelo is going to be great with Jaden and Beringer. It’s more difficult seeing how Ant and LaMelo’s game will mesh.

I think its pretty easy its going to elevate Ants game, especially in the post season. He wont have to be the primary ball handler and defenses will have a FAR more difficult time trying to scheme where Ant will be in offensive sets.

[Small Hands]

Anthony Edwards on playing with LaMelo Ball:

“It’s definitely going to be ups and downs. First year together maybe a lot of downs. We’ll celebrate both of them.”

I think it’s very easy to see how LaMelo is going to be great with Jaden and Beringer. It’s more difficult seeing how Ant and LaMelo’s game will mesh.

I think its pretty easy its going to elevate Ants game, especially in the post season. He wont have to be the primary ball handler and defenses will have a FAR more difficult time trying to scheme where Ant will be in offensive sets.

I don’t disagree with this. I think Ant was referring to building their chemistry. In the long run he will help take pressure off of him, but will take a while to get their timing right and know each other’s tendencies.

[aztimberwolves]

I think it’s very easy to see how LaMelo is going to be great with Jaden and Beringer. It’s more difficult seeing how Ant and LaMelo’s game will mesh.

I think its pretty easy its going to elevate Ants game, especially in the post season. He wont have to be the primary ball handler and defenses will have a FAR more difficult time trying to scheme where Ant will be in offensive sets.

I don’t disagree with this. I think Ant was referring to building their chemistry. In the long run he will help take pressure off of him, but will take a while to get their timing right and know each other’s tendencies.

Sure, no arguments from me there. This will literally be Ants first PG that has exceptional passing skills. Big men and Ant all should be ready for a pass at any second.

Looking forward to the season starting already!

[Small Hands]

I think its pretty easy its going to elevate Ants game, especially in the post season. He wont have to be the primary ball handler and defenses will have a FAR more difficult time trying to scheme where Ant will be in offensive sets.

I don’t disagree with this. I think Ant was referring to building their chemistry. In the long run he will help take pressure off of him, but will take a while to get their timing right and know each other’s tendencies.

Sure, no arguments from me there. This will literally be Ants first PG that has exceptional passing skills. Big men and Ant all should be ready for a pass at any second.

Looking forward to the season starting already!

I believe with the roster constructed as is, they will be worse than last season, but they will be a more exciting team offensively. Should be interesting.

[somuchyummy]

I think its pretty easy its going to elevate Ants game, especially in the post season. He wont have to be the primary ball handler and defenses will have a FAR more difficult time trying to scheme where Ant will be in offensive sets.

I don’t disagree with this. I think Ant was referring to building their chemistry. In the long run he will help take pressure off of him, but will take a while to get their timing right and know each other’s tendencies.

Sure, no arguments from me there. This will literally be Ants first PG that has exceptional passing skills. Big men and Ant all should be ready for a pass at any second.

Looking forward to the season starting already!

This might be an apex year ahead for Rudy's stone hands. Or.... Lamelo is SO good that he'll figure out how to get it to Gobert without fumbles.

[DonaldDouchebag]

Anthony Edwards on playing with LaMelo Ball:

“It’s definitely going to be ups and downs. First year together maybe a lot of downs. We’ll celebrate both of them.”

I think it’s very easy to see how LaMelo is going to be great with Jaden and Beringer. It’s more difficult seeing how Ant and LaMelo’s game will mesh.

Defenses won't be able to collapse on Edwards and immediately double him when he's bringing it over halfcourt. Now, it could be Lamelo bringing it up and if he's doubled he'll kick to Ant and vice versa.

[aztimberwolves]

I don’t disagree with this. I think Ant was referring to building their chemistry. In the long run he will help take pressure off of him, but will take a while to get their timing right and know each other’s tendencies.

Sure, no arguments from me there. This will literally be Ants first PG that has exceptional passing skills. Big men and Ant all should be ready for a pass at any second.

Looking forward to the season starting already!

I believe with the roster constructed as is, they will be worse than last season, but they will be a more exciting team offensively. Should be interesting.

Assuming they’ll make a small move to get more size, I think they’ll be better. Losing Randle and Naz isn’t that big of deal to me, especially in post season where they are exposed .

They needed a Pg in the worst of ways.

[twolves31]

I don’t disagree with this. I think Ant was referring to building their chemistry. In the long run he will help take pressure off of him, but will take a while to get their timing right and know each other’s tendencies.

Sure, no arguments from me there. This will literally be Ants first PG that has exceptional passing skills. Big men and Ant all should be ready for a pass at any second.

Looking forward to the season starting already!

I believe with the roster constructed as is, they will be worse than last season, but they will be a more exciting team offensively. Should be interesting.

I could see it going either way. If Ball can truly bend the defense and get them rotating taking off most of the double teams from Ant, and the Wolves take advantage of that, our offense will be among the best in the league. If we don't get Lebron or a true power forward, at least not until the trade deadline, the team will need to really focus on team rebounding. Naz and Randle weren't exactly good rebounders. Sometimes they would have good rebounding games when they were just in the right spot at the right time. Other times they would miss time jumps, and miss easy rebounds. I think worse case we are right around where we've been the last two seasons right in that 5-7 seed range fighting to stay out of the play in. Best case we are in that 3rd seed, maybe fighting to get higher, if it gels quickly.

[Small Hands]

Sure, no arguments from me there. This will literally be Ants first PG that has exceptional passing skills. Big men and Ant all should be ready for a pass at any second.

Looking forward to the season starting already!

I believe with the roster constructed as is, they will be worse than last season, but they will be a more exciting team offensively. Should be interesting.

I could see it going either way. If Ball can truly bend the defense and get them rotating taking off most of the double teams from Ant, and the Wolves take advantage of that, our offense will be among the best in the league. If we don't get Lebron or a true power forward, at least not until the trade deadline, the team will need to really focus on team rebounding. Naz and Randle weren't exactly good rebounders. Sometimes they would have good rebounding games when they were just in the right spot at the right time. Other times they would miss time jumps, and miss easy rebounds. I think worse case we are right around where we've been the last two seasons right in that 5-7 seed range fighting to stay out of the play in. Best case we are in that 3rd seed, maybe fighting to get higher, if it gels quickly.

Fair assessment. I mostly agree, but I think if they don’t get someone with physicality down low that averages 6-7 boards, this team will be worse. Randle averaged 7 rebounds a game and Naz averaged 8.6 per 36. They were decent rebounding bigs. Naz was better than Randle for sure. That’s a lot of boards for Jaden and Lyle to make up for. I just think this team created a glaring hole to fill another. They’ll be exciting, but I see them in the 7-8 seed range.

Wolves chat will be bitching about them getting beat up on the boards constantly.

[aztimberwolves]

I believe with the roster constructed as is, they will be worse than last season, but they will be a more exciting team offensively. Should be interesting.

I could see it going either way. If Ball can truly bend the defense and get them rotating taking off most of the double teams from Ant, and the Wolves take advantage of that, our offense will be among the best in the league. If we don't get Lebron or a true power forward, at least not until the trade deadline, the team will need to really focus on team rebounding. Naz and Randle weren't exactly good rebounders. Sometimes they would have good rebounding games when they were just in the right spot at the right time. Other times they would miss time jumps, and miss easy rebounds. I think worse case we are right around where we've been the last two seasons right in that 5-7 seed range fighting to stay out of the play in. Best case we are in that 3rd seed, maybe fighting to get higher, if it gels quickly.

Fair assessment. I mostly agree, but I think if they don’t get someone with physicality down low that averages 6-7 boards, this team will be worse. Randle averaged 7 rebounds a game and Naz averaged 8.6 per 36. They were decent rebounding bigs. Naz was better than Randle for sure. That’s a lot of boards for Jaden and Lyle to make up for. I just think this team created a glaring hole to fill another. They’ll be exciting, but I see them in the 7-8 seed range.

Wolves chat will be bitching about them getting beat up on the boards constantly.

Randle and Naz were below average rebounders for their size. It wasn’t like they were Rodmans on the boards. Beringer will get more time as well.

I think for the slight decrease in rebounding we will see will get way more offset from our easier looks created by Ball.

Again PF in the NBA isn’t what it used to be. Most nights we will be fine. Long gone are the bruisers, low post players of the 80s and 90s

[Small Hands]

I could see it going either way. If Ball can truly bend the defense and get them rotating taking off most of the double teams from Ant, and the Wolves take advantage of that, our offense will be among the best in the league. If we don't get Lebron or a true power forward, at least not until the trade deadline, the team will need to really focus on team rebounding. Naz and Randle weren't exactly good rebounders. Sometimes they would have good rebounding games when they were just in the right spot at the right time. Other times they would miss time jumps, and miss easy rebounds. I think worse case we are right around where we've been the last two seasons right in that 5-7 seed range fighting to stay out of the play in. Best case we are in that 3rd seed, maybe fighting to get higher, if it gels quickly.

Fair assessment. I mostly agree, but I think if they don’t get someone with physicality down low that averages 6-7 boards, this team will be worse. Randle averaged 7 rebounds a game and Naz averaged 8.6 per 36. They were decent rebounding bigs. Naz was better than Randle for sure. That’s a lot of boards for Jaden and Lyle to make up for. I just think this team created a glaring hole to fill another. They’ll be exciting, but I see them in the 7-8 seed range.

Wolves chat will be bitching about them getting beat up on the boards constantly.

Randle and Naz were below average rebounders for their size. It wasn’t like they were Rodmans on the boards. Beringer will get more time as well.

I think for the slight decrease in rebounding we will see will get way more offset from our easier looks created by Ball.

Again PF in the NBA isn’t what it used to be. Most nights we will be fine. Long gone are the bruisers, low post players of the 80s and 90s

Who said they were Rodmans? You’re going to be complaining about their inability to rebound and I’ll point this argument out to you.